PJ#085, SHOCK THERAPY FOR A BRAIN DEAD WORLD

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PJ 85

CHAPTER 7

GANGSTERS, CROOKED JUDGES, FAMOUS PEOPLE
AND SOME VERY TANGLED WEBS

by Rick Martin

What you are about to read is an interview between Gary Wean and Rick Martin for CONTACT on November 29, 1993. Who is Gary Wean and why would he have anything to say? He entered the Los Angeles Police Academy in 1946; worked the University Division, Metropolitan Division, and Hollywood Division. He was a Detective Sergeant with the Ventura Police Department; an Investigator with the Los Angeles District Attorney's office; Bureau of Investigation; Criminal Intelligence Unit; Chief Investigator for the Ventura County Public Defender's Office. In a word, I guess you could say that he's seen some things.

This is a story that reads like a mystery novel. Gary Wean has spoken out for years against the illegal activities of the would-be controllers and has paid dearly for doing so.

Regular CONTACT readers are well aware of Ray Renick and his difficulties concerning Judge William P. Clark and the San Luis Obispo Connection. (For those of you wishing to review the Renick material, it was printed in the August 24, 1993 edition of CONTACT, Vol. 2, #9. also PHOENIX JOURNAL #J50, & J51 . ordering information at end of book.)

This is the kind of article that fills in a lot of pieces to the puzzle...questions which have been unanswered suddenly find rest. Still others emerge, as if from the ashes of charred hope.

Gary is like many brave authors who have sacrificed greatly. He has been hounded until he has nothing left, and they keep coming. He wrote a book a number of years ago, and it was HOT! It's titled, There's A Fish In The Courthouse. It just so happens, though, that the power brokers succeeded in even breaking the publisher, Michael Thomas. The publisher, who also happens to be a California State licensed process server, had the unfortunate experience of serving legal papers on a particularly nasty judge only to find himself in a situation not unlike to Rodney King. In an entirely different matter, and upon serving a lawsuit on another Judge, one William P. Clark, at the privacy of his own home at Shandon, in San Luis Obispo, California, Michael Thomas noticed that Nancy Reagan was in the kitchen. Several Secret Service agents were in the living room as Clark strolled into the room. Upon serving William P. with the lawsuit for racketeering, the Judge completely "lost it" with unbefitting expletives . Thomas said it wasn't the shot-gun that William P. grabbed that made him nervous, it was those Secret Service guys with the MAC-10s (machine-guns). William P. was true to his word, however, by sicking the dogs on Thomas, and Wean, both of whom have been financially broken through a chain of legal harassment which seems to be the chosen course of action when wanting to getcha. Well, please read along as you enter the dark and dirty world of the judicial crooks in high places.

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Rick: Ok, Gary, I have not read your book. Some time ago, I did see a copy of several pages from a lawsuit you initiated in Santa Barbara a number of years ago concerning the Kennedy assassination. I've also seen a flier about your book. It looks like real dynamite.

I guess it would be best, so I can get a better sense of what's going on, why don't you just talk to me for a while and then we will go from there. First of all, are you familiar with the newspaper CONTACT?

Gary: Oh yes, I've had several friends send me copies. What's the purpose of our conversation right now?

Rick: Well, I had spoken to Ray Renick and he thought it would be useful to talk to you. His interest, of course, concerns William P. Clark.

Gary: Right.

Rick: But that obviously is very biased because that is his particular focus. I would be interested in hearing about that; on the other hand, I don't want to put you in jeopardy.

Gary: I'm not worried about that because everything I say is the truth. I've got documentation or I wouldn't even be...It's such a long story, Rick, it has to be pointed out, which you did, this guy Ray Renick--I don't know Ray but I had heard of the terrible problems which they are putting on the guy. The thing is, regarding William P.. Clark, 1958, or even earlier than that, I was Detective Sergeant of the Ventura Police Department and I came across some people that were involved deep in intrigue in the government, one of whom was William P. Clark and the people that owned a large law firm down there. Judge Berenson who was a Superior Court Judge, and his law partner Ben Nordham, who owned the Bank of A. Levy, were very powerful people. Well, they were mixed up with people like Abe Phillips, who was a bail bondsman in Los Angeles. He's was also a long time friend of Mickey Cohen, a Los Angeles gangster.

While I was with the District Attorney's office doing a criminal investigation, the criminal intelligence section in Los Angeles, we were surveilling Mickey Cohen and he was meeting with a guy by the name of Menachem Begin and they consequently met with, this was just prior by a couple of years, and this was in relation to actress Marilyn Monroe. Mickey Cohen was also mixed up in that. Abe Phillips in the 1950s had come up to Ventura county and was there for a specific purpose. At that time Point Mugu was just getting started. This is such a long story that I'm trying to say it so that it connects and it doesn't sound like I'm rambling, Rick.

Rick: No, that's fine.

Gary: Point Mugu was just starting out, basically, as a missile base and there was a giant mountain behind it and I don't know if you remember the Don Scott killing. That was the man who had a large ranch, a parcel of land where he was killed by deputy sheriffs in his home. And this was in Malibu...

Rick: You mean the recent one?

Gary: Yes, not too long ago. Rick: Yes, I do know about that.

Gary: They said there were narcotics there, and there were no narcotics or anything else. A lot of people think the theory is that they wanted to steal his property.

Rick: Well, they wanted the land is what I had heard.

Gary: Well, they don't care about people thinking that, it wasn't the real purpose. For years Don was a very wealthy man who had many contacts in Europe, Asia and he traveled a lot. He was connected with the CIA, getting information and giving it to them. At that time there was a larger ranch even than his, the Broome ranch in Malibu, a big brush fire and everything else. You've seen the damage those fires in that area can do.

Rick: Yes...

Gary: Well, at that time the entire Broome ranch area burned and this was about in the mid-50s. The purpose behind that burning was because powerful people lived on a high mountain up there and it faced right off the Pacific Ocean, which gave them a range of hundreds of miles for their missile testing, target testing, and everything else.

All of these guys, Edgar Phillips was up there and at that time Ben Nordham, Superior Court's Judge Berenson's, partner was a Federal Commissioner.

Rick: What was that name again, Judge Berenson? Gary: Berenson, Jerome Berenson.

Rick: Ok, thanks.

Gary: Jerome Berenson, and his partner was Ben Nordham. He was of the Levy family that owned the Bank of A. Levy and multimillionaires on top of development of everything else in that area, in Oxnard which was just above Point Mugu. To get back to Abe Phillips who was a longtime--well, even when they were kids in school he was mixed up with a guy by the name of Harry Pregerson, who is now a Federal Judge--very powerful people, a Federal Appeals Court Judge.

My partner and I back in the 40s were working Chinatown narcotics. We connected Harry Pregerson, Mickey Cohen, and Abe Phillips with a guy by the name of Davidian. Now, this is in my book. I wrote this 10 to 16 years ago in my manuscript before it was published and printed in 1987.

Rick: What was the name of that book?

Gary: There's a Fish in the Courthouse. And this part about Davidian, his name was Abraham Davidian and he belongs to the Davidian family which was an international gun running, narcotics gang outfit. Well, shortly after that, he was headquartered up in San Joaquin Valley and Fresno, basically. He was running huge amounts, in those days it was heroin, and some months later we caught him with a big load up over the Grapevine and I was with the L.A.P.D. at that time. This was 1947, he was arrested. We were working in conjunction with Federal Narcotics. They didn't call them DEA in those days, they were Federal Narcotics. One of the top agents was a guy by the name of Howard Jacket. Anyway, the Federal hit was so big that a lot of it was out of their jurisdiction, geographic jurisdiction of L.A.P.D., so Abraham Davidian was twisted. See, this is the same Davidian outfit that is mixed up in Waco and it goes back to what I'm going to say about Abe Phillips coming up through Ventura and, eventually, in those days everybody needed arms. Israel, the Israelis needed arms and they needed them down in Cuba and there was big money in running those. Anyway, Menachem Begin was over here, basically, to get arms and money for Israel. I don't know if you remember who he was.

Rick: Sure do.

Gary: To get back to Abraham Davidian, he was [taken by] Federal Narcotics. We don't know where they took him but they hid him out in a house up in Fresno, as I recall it.

Abraham was going to squeal and he was going to expose real high powered people, politicians and millionaires and everybody else that nobody suspected was in that kind of business. So, one day there were three Federal Narcotics agents guarding him in broad daylight, so Davidian, I guess, took a nap or something and this is the story. They went down to the grocery store to get themselves a coke or beer, whatever, and when they came back, he had a big hole in his head. He was deader than hell. I'm covering a lot of years and a lot of things, so if any questions come up, please ask.

Alright, in 1958 there were National Guard Armories all over the country being burglarized. You would have thought that there were so many of them being burglarized they would have had a couple of men on guard at night, but they burglarized the Oxnard armory which is not too far from Point Mugu, just between Point Mugu and Oxnard. There were a lot of machine guns, 30 caliber machine guns, 50 caliber and everything taken, well, my partner who was--actually, I was with the Ventura Police Department--but Ed Patton was a Sergeant on the Oxnard Police Dept. It was the mid-50s and it was a pretty small county and we knew just about everything that was going on. Anyway, we came up with some suspects and the FBI arrested them but they never recovered the guns.

Then, later on, through some of my informants I found out that William P. Clark had one of the 50 caliber machine guns and he had it mounted in his house in Oxnard and he's kind of a right wing. I don't believe that there is right wing, left wing and all that stuff--everybody is involved in everything. But, the way they would describe somebody like that, he was making statements that when the revolution comes that any Niggers or Mexicans that come around his house he's going to blow them down and statements like this.

So, I plugged into it a little bit and found out that the machine gun came from the Oxnard armory burglary and then a lot of other things tied together and, as I say, the FBI drew some information, I mean, arrested two of the suspects and then later on these two men also turned up down in Florida and Dallas, Texas and that area; this was in 1963, five years later. I suspected they were out of prison by that time. But as I say, these two burglaries were also connected with Abe Phillips. See, this Oxnard armory made it under the Federal jurisdiction of the FBI and the Justice Department. Well, at that time Ben Nordham and Judge Berenson were running their own little deal. Abe Phillips would handle the bail-bonds and make money that way, and then, also, Judge Jerome Berenson and Ben Nordham, who was the Federal Commissioner at that time would put them on bail and they all knew each other. These judges and these top people over there that I've talked about knew more about criminals than the Police Department did--who was capable of doing what, and naturally, when the criminal got in that position he was pretty well under the thumb and control of people who could put him in or out of jail. Naturally nobody wanted to be in jail.

Let's see now, we are talking about William P. Clark. At this time William P. Clark is getting himself pretty well set­up in politics. He gets acquainted with, (actually he was duped), Ronald Reagan and did some work and claimed that he got some votes for Ronald Reagan. He was appointed a judge first. They tried to appoint him a judge in Ventura county but he wasn't acceptable. He was a multi- -millionaire, even at that time. This goes back to his father and grandfather who were Marshals, Federal Marshals and Sheriffs and everything else in Ventura County and mixed up in all the old time narcotics and prostitution and everything in Oxnard. They bought up large parcels of land. Well, in San Luis Obispo County, we get back up now to where this guy Ray Renick is. He [Clark] owns thousands of acres in an area up there called Shandon. I don't know if you are familiar with Shandon.

Rick: Not by name but I'm familiar with the area.

Gary: Alright, to get back to Ronald Reagan, they had an opening in San Luis Obispo County, so they brought him up to San Luis Obispo County and made him a Superior Court Judge. This is shortly after Ronald Reagan came to power in the State of California.

Rick: Ah-huh.

Gary: Also, at that time there was another guy by the name of Pete Wilson who was running around with a State Senator, Malcolm Lucas, and of course, Deukmejian. All of these four people, right at the present, are very powerful. They can appoint any judge in the State of California, get any decision that they want. Also, I'm not sure whether you are familiar with it, but this guy William P. Clark is one of the huge holders of the Pacific Telesis Group [which owns as one of its subsidiaries Pacific Bell Telephone Co.]. One of the big projects right now is running a huge cable from Northern California, from the border clear down the entire length of California, which is, I don't understand it too much but its for...what's this kind of cable now, I'm not familiar with it.

Rick: Fiber Optics?

Gary: Yeah, there you go. Yeah, and that's what they got, there's been a lot of Court decisions on it. They're trying to, it's supposed to be a multi-million dollar project right at the moment but to get back, at the time the guy [William P. Clark] didn't have a degree from a university, a law degree but he did pass the bar in some way, shape, or form. There was a lot of stink over that. He wasn't qualified, but then...

Rick: So, there was a challenge to that early on?

Gary: Yeah, an informal challenge by a bunch of lawyers who didn't want to accept him and thought he was--remember he hadn't lived up in Shandon for many years. He moved up there and established his residence in his old home long enough so that Reagan could appoint him to the Superior Court. Well, he was only there for a short while, then he goes to the Appeals Court down in Los Angeles--State Appeals Court--and then shortly Reagan appoints him to the State Supreme Court and this is the way he came up. When Reagan was President he took him back as an advisor, and then shortly after that he became the National Security Advisor. Well, here's a guy, and I also ran across this thing that makes the statement that when a revolution comes, they could have this revolution and riots and everything else through certain organizations that they were going to stir up--like the Los Angeles riots [Watts] in 1965 and across the country. They had them all across the country and they weren't just haphazard. They were well organized and precipitated by these people.

So, now we've got William P. Clark who is the head of the National Security Agency with a stolen 50 caliber machine gun in his house and they're wanting to...At that time, the validity which comes with the National Security Director which doesn't take a Senate or Congressional appointment, I think it takes Presidential appointment. Then, they want to make him [Clark] Secretary of the Interior, which controls all the--and he is in with a guy by the name of Bob Mackonsia an old time friend of his, who was a Federal Congressman at that time and who also comes from Ojai [,CA] area.

Bob Mackonsia, very powerful, and that goes clear up into San Luis Obispo. What we're getting at here is that all the Judges are tied together and all controlled right at the moment by Deukmejian, Pete Wilson and Malcolm Lucas.

Rick: Who is Malcolm?

Gary: Malcolm Lucas is a California State Supreme Court Justice and is the one right now who, because of some of the things that Ray Renick knows, are behind a lot of Ray's problems. They actually drove the poor guy into doing what he did but, be that as it may.

Let's see, William P.--and here we've got the guy who, all of a sudden, becomes the Secretary of the Interior. Well, before he became, and this is about 1987 or something, another man and I, by that time in the Fall of 1987, had my book printed. It was about 700 and some pages and we took a petition.

There were a lot of judges and lawyers, about 10 of them in Ventura County alone who were killed. They and their wives were killed and some of them were murdered in their beds. The husband and the wife were murdered in their beds with their heads caved in, airplane crashes, boat accidents, all kinds of things, all at critical moments in their future careers of being Justices. In other words, there was an underground thing going on at that time to get the people out they didn't want and put their own crew in, because, you can see that if you control the Judicial System, forget the Executive and the Legislative Branches. There isn't a Senator in this country that can put you in jail, Rick, that gets mad at you. The President couldn't put you in jail if he wanted to. He doesn't have the jurisdiction or the power but look at the power a single little judge has.

Rick: Well, it's tremendous.

Gary: A single little judge can destroy your entire life with his power and power of discretion. With discretionary power they can wipe out legislative laws, case law, Supreme Court law. They can do anything they want, they can totally destroy you...

Rick: That's true.

Gary: And with all kinds of little gimmicks, their power of discretion or their power of contempt of court, the minute you don't do what they want they set a couple of things in motion, then all of a sudden, you're in contempt of court and you're in jail from now on. So, anyway, at this time they had Big Plans. There was off-shore drilling in California. There was onshore drilling and there were communications decisions, court decisions that had to be made, big powerful ones, and right now one of the biggest ones, a multi-million dollar cable thing. What was the name of it again? What did you call it?

Rick: Fiber optics.

Gary: There you go. Fiber optics, and this even goes to, it's set-up with new computer stuff where, like your and my phone call right now, just climb a telephone pole or dial the phone company to have them hook in your line. They could be on you immediately and this is what the system is all about. The powerful, I'm not knocking the entire Justice Department or the FBI or any of our agents, what I'm saying is, at the top level the people that control it, all those agencies are controlled through the Justice Dept.

Rick: Yes.

Gary: Which is a terrible power. Whoever is the head of the Justice Department is appointed by the President. So, you can see why you'd pinpoint the power. There are a lot of people in our government agencies and intelligence agencies who don't approve of it, naturally, wholehog, don't approve of what is going on and how the agency is being used against themselves and the people, but they are powerless. The minute they open their mouths, terrible things start to happen to them. It's quite a serious situation.

To get back to William P. Clark and Harry Pregerson and all those people. Harry Pregerson is the United States Federal Appellate Court Judge in the Ninth Circuit. He has been there for years and years, him and another guy by the name of Steven Reinhardt. He was a shyster lawyer that was taken off the street and appointed not even to the District Court, but right up to the Appellate Court and, this may sound funny, but these people are into everything. They're into our professional sports, football, basketball, anything that you could name, these guys have got a hand in it. When decisions come up in front of them, why, what the heck, this is why our country is going down because decisions are being made to benefit them and not our country or our people or anything else.

Now, to William P. Clark, as we can focus on him. Back in 1987, when I got my book printed, I had to print it in a garage with a couple of has-been printers and a beat-up printing press in the middle of the night to keep from getting killed, so they wouldn't know it. I had been writing it, my wife had typed on kind of a pinpoint type, not too good, but it was sufficient to get my point out and I got a cover on it. So, we took this back to a friend of mine (I won't name him right now) and we went back to Washington D. C. with the book. I took 100 of them back there and delivered one to each and every one of the United States Senators along with a petition for them to investigate. It was their duty for the welfare, health, and safety of the people of the United States and California and the Ninth Circuit to investigate the Judicial corruption that was going on there.

It was quite a big deal in Washington D. C. because we were assigned a new plainclothed capitol police officer who had been also with the Senate Sergeant-at-Arms who gave orders and we were taken to a guy by the name of Michael Davidson. I believe he was the lawyer who was in charge of the visual problems of the U.S. Senate, and we were escorted for several days to each and every one of the Senator offices to put this book and petition on the Senators. It explained all these things that I'm telling you and much more and the purpose of this at that time was that we had information on corruption by Senator Strom Thurmond and I had correspondence with him. I've got letters from him, where he was going to investigate the situation that we are talking about. So, when we got back there Strom Thurmond and Joseph Biden and all the rest of them, plus Teddy Kennedy, that were on the Senate Judiciary Committee covered it up. We had conversations with them and everything else, well, we waited until the next year...oh, [remembering] alright, the reason we went back was because the Senate Judiciary Committee was going to vote on investigating William P. Clarks appointment to the Cabinet. Let's see, that was Reagan's Cabinet through the Secretary of Interior. That goes back to all these things I've been saying, off-shore drilling, chemicals and mining and everything. We were trying to get the information exposed of William P. Clark's criminal activities and contacts and the whole works from what we presented. Well, they covered the whole thing up.

Rick: Was this a law enforcement action or was it by you as an individual ?

Gary: This was an individual American citizen petition. Rick: And what year was this?

Gary: November, 1987. And then they covered it up and appointed William P. Clark to the Interior [post in the] Cabinet, and then shortly after that, I worked on it and I got some stuff. Nancy Reagan didn't like William P. for some reason. She didn't trust him; of course there are a lot of people that didn't trust him. Ronald Reagan was nothing more than a dupe for all of these big powerful, high, big-shots from Hollywood on down. I knew him many years ago. But anyway, we got information through the backdoor of the White House, and then it was real strange, shortly after that, on TV and the news, William P. Clark made the announcement that he was homesick for his ranch in Shandon and he left [1984-5]. They were bringing him up the line. You could see all these steps that he went through. They were bringing up the line. He was going to be the next President. Something was going to happen to Reagan. I don't mean they were going to kill him. He was going to become senile or couldn't remember, that sort of thing, and just kind of step down. Of course, the Vice President was the next one in line, but they had some kind-of angle that William P. was going to end up as the next President about a year before the election. Then he would be incumbent and they were sure that they could run him in on Reagan's Administration as the next President.

I know that this is a lot of rambling on but we are... Rick: No, no, this is fine.

Gary: I've got many years of things so, let's see, ah where was I exactly?

Rick: William P.

Gary: Yeah, we got this stuff in through the back door regarding what the Senate Judiciary Committee had done and the next thing you know, as I said, William P. made the announcement that he was homesick. He wanted to get back to his ranch. Very quietly, he left Washington D. C. Nobody could understand why this occurred. He is still very powerful in money and his contacts with the Judges. They're going to extraordinary measures to keep all these things that we know and everything else quiet but, this thing with Waco, well, one of the basic reasons that occurred at all--a lot of the agents, that are going to take the gas for this really didn't know what was going on, what was the main purpose behind it. They were told that these were real bad people and that they were doing their duty, which they do. The point I'm trying to make is that we don't have a whole bunch of bad guys, that we can't even understand why Americans as FBI and ATF would be bad guys, which they're not. I don't know if I'm making my point clear to you

Rick: Yes, you're doing fine.

Gary: Ok. And that's the sad part about it. Then all you read in the newspaper is that these agents are doing these things. Well, this guy Koresh had contacts in Hollywood. He wasn't just some guy that was mixed up in religion trying to make a buck. He had peak contacts in Hollywood and other places and in gun movements. I'm not saying who in his movement was involved in the gun movements or anything else, but anyway they had some of these weapons which should have been recovered from the arsenal when the FBI investigated this. They could never figure out where the weapons went. I know where they went. They went to Mickey Cohen's outfit at that time, which later on was transferred to what they call the ADL, the Jewish Defense League which was led by a guy named Rueben.

Rick: In what city is that?

Gary: In Los Angeles. And then, later on, Harry Pregerson and Mickey Cohen were real good buddies from way back, like I said when I was working on surveying them clear back to 1946, when I was working narcotics on the L.A.P.D. in old Chinatown down in Los Angeles and Mickey Cohen, we'd follow him to the fight arenas. That's where a lot of his money was and his racetrack wire service. A lot of it was over the racetrack wire service and a lot of guys got themselves killed in those days. Anyway--I want to stay a little bit on a level here so we don't go flying all over the place.

Rick: It's interesting. You're staying on track. These things seem to be related.

Gary: Ok. It's the connections of all these people. And then in 1958 and '59 Mickey Cohen, what he was doing, the racket he had going was with Lana Turner. He had some of his Hollywood lover boys like George Miscatelli and Johnny Stampanada. You remember the old deal with Johnny Stampanada, he got himself stabbed to death and killed in Lana Turner's house?

Rick: No, I don't.

Gary: Well that was over one of the acts that Mickey Cohen had his hands in at that time that was very successful, moneywise, for him. He dumped these Italian lovers that he had working for him on Lana Turner and she fell in love with this guy Johnny Stampanada and he "figured" the motels. Mickey Cohen would have it all wired up and make recordings of it and sell them for what was going on in the motel room between Lana and Johnny Stampanada. Then, it developed to a point where he got stabbed and killed in her house.

Well, another one of the Italian boys was a guy by the name of George Miscatelli. George Miscatelli, Mickey Cohen had working on Marilyn Monroe and at that time my partner and I, who was with the Los Angeles District Attorney's Office, (he is dead now), we were surveilling this whole thing and that's how we came upon Mickey Cohen and Menachem Begin who used to meet at the Beverly Hills Hotel on Wilshire Boulevard. We were taking pictures. We had a man out in the van looking like the flower company florist shop and we took pictures. We had pictures of Mickey Cohen. Well, one night we followed Mickey Cohen and Menachem Begin and they went up to Hollywood off Sunset Boulevard to a house. When we got there and checked it out it was Melvin Belli's house.

Now this is all in my book and all of this stuff was taken to the United States 100 Senators who covered it up and they've got quite a problem with this right now because of things that have occurred. And then we got license plates, and we're talking about 1958, 1959 or maybe 1960 because it's about the time we ran into some other things when JFK came out here in 1960, when he disappeared from the convention down there in Los Angeles.

We had information from a big informant of ours, a madame, that they were going to have a big party out at Peter Lawford's house. We left the convention before JFK did and we drove as fast as we could down to Malibu, ah, down to Santa Monica actually to Peter Lawford's house. By the time we got there, we went down to the beach and we could see JFK had beaten us there. We could never figure out how in the hell he beat us there.

Later on, I met a guy by the name of Anthony Summers. He is a writer for BBC. He wrote, Conspiracy and Marilyn Monroe and very good books, Anthony Summers did, but when he got to the crucial parts he got to me and asked me for a lot of information which I gave him and I gave him the names of people. I gave him the name of a madame, I gave him a couple of other names, one of them being Joey Bishop. I don't know if you have ever heard of Joey Bishop?

Rick: Yes, sure.

Gary: Bishop was in the old Peter Lawford-Frank Sinatra gang. He was the one that set-up the party at Peter Lawford's house with Marilyn Monroe and, contrary to what they all say and everything else, this was the first time JFK ever met her. You can pinpoint that down because that was the night that he disappeared from the convention in Los Angeles. They try to say there was a big love affair and all kinds of crap going on prior to that, but that's not so. We never ran across any of that or anything else, but anyway, one of the crux of the things is that Joey Bishop set-up the whole thing with a madame to have Marilyn Monroe there. There was a bunch of Hollywood girls and that's how we found it out. So, we were there that night and saw what was going on but through certain circumstances, we didn't stay too long.

There was a guy that I went to the Los Angeles Police Academy with by the name of Freddy Otash. Well, Freddy Otash, in 1946 when I was working down in Chinatown, Freddy was working vice. He met a lot of people in Hollywood and everything else and later on he resigned from the Police Dept. and set himself up a Private Detective Agency in Hollywood. Freddy was one of the main participants in an old magazine called CONFIDENTIAL, if you recall that. Freddy knew everybody in Hollywood. He knew everything that went on and he was a good friend of Peter Lawford. And Freddy is the one that claims him and another guy by the name of Don Zanoff, who is a bond expert, well, they always claimed that they bugged Peter Lawford's house and the bedroom and were on TV. I've got my copies of my tapes where they came out on TV and made these tremendous false statements that, like Don Zanoff said, they asked him how he could know that Marilyn and John [JFK] were carrying on in Peter Lawford's house. Well, he could hear the bed springs squeaking.

Well, this is the damndest lie you ever saw because I was living off in the West Valley of San Fernando Valley at the time and when I would go downtown early in the morning, I'd go across Topanga Canyon, I don't know if you are familiar with down there, but from Topanga Canyon you come right down into Malibu. Well, I was getting there early in the morning and I'd come a long distance, with my field glasses, and sometimes Frank, my partner, would meet me there. We'd watch John Banoff and Freddy Otash, not Freddy, who wouldn't go up the pole, but John Banoff would climb these poles and they were up there frantically trying to get hooked into the telephone line. And that was as close as they ever came to having a bugging.

What precipitated that, this was really one of the last things that caused a whole bunch of strange things to happen through rumor and false statements, etc.

Ok, when Mickey Cohen was making these records and bugging the motel rooms and Lana Turner, and then for Marilyn Monroe, at the same time this was shortly after Marilyn Monroe had met John Kennedy down at Peter Lawford's house, which as I recall, was 1960. My memory is clogged up with all these dates, but I'm pretty sure it was 1960. Well, that was when we were following all these people and Menachem Begin was mixed up in it.

We know that Caspar Weinberger was there because of license plates on his vehicle. I read his license plates and it was Melvin Belli's house, which I knew and Caspar Weinberger was there, too. Here's Caspar Weinberger, who at that time was a powerful man with this construction company, Bechtel Construction Company; that one that also Shultz was involved in and I think that billions, up to a half a trillion or a trillion dollars worth of defense work over in Vietnam and everywhere else. So, a lot of that was behind it, and also, when Caspar Weinberger became Secretary of Defense, he knew where all the arms and everything else, were. There was no way that he couldn't know where all the arms and everything else were being shipped to South America and all of that.

But I'll get back to Marilyn Monroe and Freddy Otash and what precipitated this thing. Freddy Otash, for Mickey Cohen, had bugged this motel room where Lana Turner and Johnny Stampanada were and helped him make the record [recording for an LP]. Well, there was a guy that, I can't remember his name right now who was a "bug" man for, who's the labor leader?

Rick: Hoffa?

Gary: Yeah, Jimmy Hoffa. Spindell. His name was Spindell. Ok, the word had got around that Freddy Otash in Hollywood had spread the word, and so did Mickey Cohen, that they not only had these records but, in fact, they were selling them to people for parties and back in New York for a thousand dollars a record [album]. They made millions of bucks off Lana Turner's alone and then they were working on Marilyn Monroe's and they were going to do the same thing.

Well, just as things will happen and all of the rest of the stuff. Menachem Begin and those guys come into the picture and the word got to Hoffa who was having his problems with Bobby Kennedy, and Hoffa wanted something on them real bad. So, Freddy actually tells Spindell, "Hell, I've got tapes, recordings of Marilyn and JFK and I'll get you these tapes very shortly". At that time he gave Spindell one of these big black discs. That's what they were made of. They weren't made on tapes in those days. They were made on the old fashioned type disc. We knew there was a record company down on Santa Monica Boulevard and Crenshaw, down there that stamped these records out on the morning shift. They had a clandestine crew in there that was making these records. They are 12" diameter and they were stamped-off at the factory. Hoffa wanted this information on JFK and Marilyn Monroe's involvement to maybe halt their investigation against his Teamster operations and Freddy lied to Spindell that he was going to have--Freddy was making a lot of money, he was taking big money from Mickey Cohen for doing these things, then he got big money from Jimmy Hoffa for supposedly doing--but he never did deliver because he never had them. Then the rumors got a little bigger because Jimmy Hoffa's anticipating, he's shooting off his mouth that he's about to get these records and he does have them but he never came out with them. Believe me, if he would have had 'em he would have been screaming about it from the roof-tops to get the pressure off him. He was no gentlemen, as he once said, "Well, I'm not going to bring it out because I wouldn't embarrass JFK's wife." That's a bunch of baloney. He didn't care about embarrassing anybody when it come to getting himself out of a problem.

This precipitated a lot of this talk about JFK and Bobby Kennedy and the big love affair. The way this comes in, I believe, was Mickey Cohen and Menachem Begin were to get an in with Marilyn Monroe to pick her brain, so she could find the inside scoop from J. F. Kennedy. You see what I'm trying to say?
Well, the guy that they used that was going to pick her brain was the guy by the name of George Miscatelli. This is what started the whole chain of events and it goes down to the point when JFK was killed and E. Howard Hunt, there was a lot of background stuff. E. Howard Hunt was with the CIA. There's no question about that and they had a scam going where they were going to perform a phony assassination on JFK. This was for the purpose--and this is where Oswald comes in. Oswald didn't kill JFK, no way, shape, or form. They were blind-sided by this organization of Menachem Begin that infiltrated this thing and committed the actual murder. That's why so much cover-up. Everybody was scared to death. They didn't know who the heck had done it.

Well, shortly after JFK was killed, my partner and I had a good friend, Audie Murphy. Audie was a Lieutenant Colonel or Colonel, I can't recall which (we're talking about 35 years ago) in the Texas National Guard and he was going down there all the time. He used to fly on Braniff Airline. He knew Bill Decker who was the Sheriff of Dallas at that time. Bill Decker and Audie used to love--he would give us a lot of information on narcotics and all kinds of things that were going on in Hollywood, and occasionally would ride around with Mike and Me and work cases in conjunction with narcotics and all that. Audie, his friend Bill Deckner and I had met each other when he had come out to Los Angeles on business quite often and Audie, we met with him at the Police Academy and we took them all to lunch. This was shortly after the assassination took place and at that time Bill Decker said he had a friend in Texas who was terrified because he was involved in that thing, in a manner, and that he wanted to know if we would meet with him. Well, we explained that we didn't have any jurisdiction or anything. He said, well, that was better because they wanted somebody from outside who was not personally involved in this thing. We set‑up a deal where Audie and Frank and I flew over to a place. We met him half-way, a place called Ruidoso, New Mexico. And Bill Decker came there with this guy. In my book his name is John. I didn't put his whole name because he'd get [killed]--well, John, explained the whole thing about how some lawyers were involved in it from Washington; two of them are now United States Senators. This comes back to why they covered up the whole thing [in my book], and explained how this whole phony assassination attempt was going to be set-up, so that it would look so real. The purpose was because they had been trying to kill Castro with all kinds of crazy things like exploding cigars and crazy stuff. Well, they finally came up with this deal where, just like the battleship Maine was blown up in Cuba harbor and Pearl Harbor--remember Pearl Harbor--well, they began to set-up a deal to get the people behind them. They discovered that you can't really handle a war or really do something successful unless the people are behind it. So, they wanted an attempted assassination on JFK which would get the people behind them. So, then the tale would be that from Dallas down to Mexico City, over to the Cuban Embassy, who would be hiding the perpetrator of this assassination on JFK. This was for the purpose of getting the people all worked up. They had newspapers all ready, headlines and everything else to invade Cuba, which would serve a whole bunch of people's purpose, the mafia who wanted to get back at the Cubans, the Cuban exiles who wanted to get back at their Cuban homeland, also the gambling was mixed up with what I call the--have you ever heard the word mishpucka?

Rick: No.

Gary: That's M I S H P U C K A. Now, in Jewish that means family, just the same thing as mafia means family in Italian. That's the Jewish and Italian crime families. Well, the Jewish crime family was far more influential moneywise and powerwise and sophistication and everything else; be that as it may, they all wanted to get back into Cuba and this was the purpose. Well, some other things transpired involving construction with Bechtel and Vietnam at that same time, billions and billions, they were making more money over there constructing war-time efforts in those foreign countries than they actually were in Cuba or all of their operations put together; so, JFK had made secret plans with Russia, Russian leaders. He was trying to downgrade war and get us to the point of peace and this was totally unacceptable, naturally, to these people that were making billions and billions of dollars. This is why ALDUSEP, another organization that had infiltrated E. Howard Hunt's outfit, changed it all of a sudden; instead of being a fake assassination it becomes a real assassination, and when this occurred, E. Howard Hunt and law enforcement, intelligence and everything just totally came apart because, they didn't know who did it, how it happened. First of all, Howard Hunt naturally thought what's-his-name, Oswald, had double-crossed him. Oswald thought, for crying-out-loud, Hunt had double-crossed him. You see the pandemonium it created? Within all law enforcement.

And then here's Jack Ruby, who a couple of days later, killed Oswald and then the Police Department is suspect. All kinds of rumors come up--it's the Police Department--it's the Sheriff's Department--the CIA--and all of these things. It still goes back to the point of who really did it. how, and why and a whole bunch of questions that I could talk to you all day to show you where it goes someplace else and at that time Mickey Cohen had a girlfriend, Rick. She was that stripper named Candy Barr. She was having an affair with Menachem Begin and Mickey Cohen. Mickey had her stashed away up in a room in a Beverly Hills Hotel and Candy Barr, at that time, was making trips back and forth to Dallas, Texas. Well, my partner and I knew all of these things had happened, but we hadn't put it all together. It just didn't come together until a whole bunch of events occurred later on. Mickey Cohen's contact to Jack Ruby was Candy Barr and then there was a guy by the name of Harry--he owned Harry's Bar--this was during the war. He had a big bar and made millions of dollars down in Los Angeles. Oh, what the heck was his name? He went down in about 1947, well '46 was when I first saw and ran into Mickey Cohen with Jack Ruby out at the Hollywood racetrack. It wasn't the Hollywood racetrack, it was actually in Inglewood, if you know where that is, called the Hollywood Park race-track.

Rick: No, I don't.

Gary: It's in Inglewood. But anyway, I was working out there (I won't go into the details) and I came across Mickey Cohen; actually I was working the University area where I was walking the beat down at the Olympic stadium. I don't know if you know where the Olympic stadium is but that's where all the fights, big fights were carried on. There was the Olympic stadium, the Southgate arena, Hollywood Legion stadium. That's where he did all of his gambling and all of the arrangements were made for big fights. Well, I observed at the Hollywood racetrack that in Mickey Cohen's chauffeur driven limousine, Jack Ruby was in the back seat with Mickey Cohen. And I met him a couple of other times up at Harry's Bar in 1947 when I had gone up to work the metropolitan division and downtown Los Angeles. That's when I was working Chinatown and all of that.

One night we observed Mickey Cohen in Chinatown. We followed him down to the Southgate arena with this guy Abraham Davidian. He was the one guy I didn't know who in the hell he was at that time. We followed him down there and he met with Harry Pregerson, who was a law student, and a shyster, hanging around with Mickey Cohen because they know that, they board up at a place called City Terrace just over the east side of Los Angeles, a big Russian Jew--and at that meeting down at the Southgate arena here was Mickey Cohen, Harry Pregerson, and Abraham Davidian and there was some other guy. There were four of them that night. As I say, there was Mickey. Abraham, Harry and oh, yes, Abe Phillips already sitting down there and holding front row seats. We watched all of these guys meet and Mickey Cohen and Abraham Davidian came back to Los Angeles up to Chinatown and I got a license plate off Mr. Davidian when he left Mickey Cohen's car. He went over to the parking lot and got in his car and I got the license plate.

That's when we first came upon Abraham Davidian and he met with a couple of Chinese guys. One was a man by the name of...I'll think of it in just a minute. No, Wong was working in Chinatown and he was the Chinatown connection for all the narcotics with Abraham, Benny Wong. Later on, I followed Benny Wong up from Los Angeles. He met with Mickey Cohen. Mickey had a cover place, it was in a florist shop. We followed him up to Ventura, to Oxnard, and he went directly to a place called the Colonial House Restaurant and Inn which was owned by a wealthy man who has been involved, whose name is Martin B. Smith or Bud Smith. If you've ever been to Oxnard you've seen those two big highest black tower buildings, glass buildings.

Rick: It's been many years.

Gary: Well, those two buildings are the highest buildings between San Francisco and Los Angeles and they are all owned by Martin B. Smith, (Bud Smith) and he's been involved with Mickey Cohen. Smith was tied in with Judge Berenson, (Jerome Berenson) and Ben Nordham. They were all tied up with William P. Clark. Its quite a chain.

Rick: I'm trying to make a link between the two people we were just talking about and William P. Clark, you said it was a very long chain.

Gary: Oh, Yeah. Martin B. Smith is connected with Judge Jerome Berenson, Ben Nordham, Mickey Cohen and with Abe Phillips. Now here is the strange thing, the point I wanted to get in, when we went back, when I wrote my book, I only described John, the guy that we met in Ruidoso as John because he was still alive and he was scared to death and it could have got him killed, which it did, eventually. John was actually Senator John Tower from Texas.

Rick: That's interesting.

Gary: Now, when we went back and put all of this stuff out somebody will say, well, all of these people are dead. That is true. In 1987, when we put all of this stuff on the United States Senate, they were not dead. John Tower was not dead. I didn't reveal John Tower's name at that time but nobody, they all covered all of this stuff up and at that time I was prepared to give them documented evidence and everything else about the murder of .IFK and the involvement of Menachem Begin, Micke_y Cohen and these other people and Wiffiam P. Clark. I was ready, willing and able. That was the purpose we went back there for. We would have sat down and we would have done everything we are doing here right now with evidence and this terrible thing would have been off the people's back but...

Rick: Let's move things up a little more current just for a moment. Is there anything going on over the last year in terms of new information or have you been persecuted in any way? Are you hiding? Are you ...

Gary: Why sure, I'm persecuted by this guy Malcolm Lucas. Rick: Who is Lucas?

Gary: Malcolm Lucas is a Chief Judge of the California Supreme Court. He has the power of appointment over every Judge in the State of California.

Rick: Ok, and why are you being persecuted by him?

Gary: He is totally mixed up with William P. Clark, Pete Wilson. You see Pete Wilson was the United States Senator that was one of the ones that we took this petition and the book. Pete Wilson knows the whole thing. [Now governor of California.]

Rick: Please, go into detail.

Gary:..Well, they put a phony lawsuit against me using some lady and everything else. Well, this is the one that you're getting copies of. I didn't know this lady, but she evidently--I found out originally she had obtained all of my lawsuits, my answers, which they immediately--ah, I go into Court, I can't get a lawyer and then the Judge sits there and laughs, orders me to get a lawyer or he is going to put me in contempt of Court, put me in jail, get a Default Judgment against everything that my wife and I own. So, I go out and pay $1000 to a lawyer. The first hearing we have, this lawyer doesn't show up. So, they dismiss my lawsuit, put judgments and sanctions and everything. It's just been a continuous thing like this for 25 years now and it was occurring even before that time but I couldn't connect why in the heck it was occurring. Like I say, in 1987, Pete Wilson who is totally involved in this corruption right now, was a United States Senator. He was served one of the petitions and books on this thing and then the next year when they didn't answer, this friend of mine, at my personal expense utilizing every buck I could get, my wife and I thought we would break the State if there was perhaps an honest man in the Senate, but this proves that there isn't even one.

Rick: Ok, let me get you off track again. Let's talk a little bit about Deukmejian.

Gary: Sure.

Rick: What can you tell me about his involvement in some of this corruption.

Gary: Ok. In 1974, this is when they took over the California State through a little trick of the California State Constitution. Pete Wilson was in on it. He was a California State Senator. Deukmejian was the California State Attorney General and William P. Clark, I can't recall exactly what he was, I believe he was with the State Supreme Court at that time and they were putting all this stuff on this woman by the name of Roseberg, blaming her for everything. This lady had been appointed by Governor Brown as the State Attorney General, Roseberg. They were blaming her and they were doing all the stuff and she wasn't completely blameless but they were putting all this insane crap on her that they were doing. They were going to revise, they got permission through the California State Assembly, the lawmakers, to revise the California State Constitution in this aspect of genderism, you know what I mean?

Rick: Yes.

Gary: Where it says "his" and "man", take that out and instead of "his" it would put a "person" in there, "man" would be "person", and all of that. They were just doing these things, innocuous things supposedly, but, in one section (I can't remember it now) but I took up all the old records. I got them just before March Fong Eu, the Secretary of State, disposed of them. She had them all in boxes. I think they were going to move into another building or something. She had all the old-time records. Anyway, now we got a guy's name by the name of Robert Lagomarcino.

Rick: I know the name.

Gary: Ok, Robert Lagomarcino at that time, I believe, was a California State Senator. And about the same time when Reagan came into power, he ran for the United States Congress and he won that. Now, he is tied up with William P. Clark. They've known each other from the time they were in kneepants, all of them raised up there in the same wealthy crew. Pete Wilson was out in the California State Senate. They put this little one liner into a certain section in there that said that the California State Assembly could change the election code that if an incumbent Judge runs for office, first thing he does is file, correct?

Rick: Yes.

Gary: Ok, at the end of this filing period they can claim him an incumbent. He could just have been appointed a few months prior. Well, the California Constitution, the United States Constitution and everything else says that Judges have to be elected. So, what they put in there is this little one liner that says if the Judge filed and no lawyer (you have to be a lawyer to run for Judge) files to run against him then he does not have to be on a ballot. In other words, you see, through this, a guy can be appointed by the Governor as in a Superior Municipal Court Judge, Commissioner or anything, except the Appellate Court, and suppose he is appointed by the Governor or even Malcolm Lucas the Supreme Court Justice can appoint him now, six months before the election. Alright, then this guy files and if no lawyers run, then he does not have to be on the ballot. Ok, this guy's in there for life and never had be on the ballot, or run for office. This is what our California State Judges are made up of now. They have a California State Judge's pension that is up into the trillions of dollars where they all stay in their offices this long and they make the decisions they are told to make and they can make these decisions. We've got 52 counties in the State of California and they make one in San Diego that goes to this point, etc., and they put it all together and they got what they want, see, but you and I and the citizens, nobody really knows the game that is being played there. Now, all of those big guys, look at the (I can't remember the name) its a big long bunch of names that Deukmejian belongs to, the law firm. They're into everything. People from their office were appointed to the Cabinet members back in Washington D. C. That's where all the big connections are and then ...

Rick: So, you have basically fled for safety?

Gary: No, no, we thought we were, at the time we sold all our property, and gee, we're in our seventies. I wanted to get out of that thing. We decided to sell all our property. We get so much social security and we have our property. We'd get maybe a $1000 a month for that. We wouldn't be millionaires but we could live and maybe do a few things that my wife has wanted to do, I've wanted to do, and all those sort of things. We sold our property but you wouldn't believe that, they persecuted me for five years right straight from Judge Berenson and Nordham's law office. In this respect, they had a guy that was mixed up in narcotics claim that he was injured on our property. Well, they sued us for everything we had, hauled us through the Courts right there in Ventura for five years. We figured at that time we were going to lose everything we had, everything we had invested in, and everything else. They tried to get me to go to arbitration which I knew was a set-up. They were going to put a judgment against us. Well, once they get their hooks into you and a judgment against you, you end up with nothing. They just hound you to death. Well, I demanded and I fought and I screamed right in that Courthouse so they could hear me all over that I wanted a jury. So, because of the way I screamed they finally gave me a jury. Our trial went on for three days and I won hands down. Usually you can win with seven people on a civil trial, right?

Rick: Yes.

Gary: I got a unanimous jury and then the jury came right back and asked the Judge, "did they have the power to give me a judgment against the guys that were harassing me," can you believe that!?

Rick: That's great!

Gary: Yeah, its great but here is what happened. The Judge ordered that I was to get all my expenses and everything else paid but, however after that the Judge or the lawyer or nobody would answer any questions--I never got a dime out of the Court Orders that ordered; in other words., when I win it doesn't mean a damn thing. All I did was get that thing off my back, the guy that was screaming that he was injured, who had harassed us for five years, five solid years. Then, immediately after that we decided to sell and get out. We sold our property and then that's another story how they came in the escrow and they stole certain papers. We had two escrows going, one for the business and one for the real estate. They stole papers out of the business escrow, a $20,000 promissory note that was to be held in there until somebody else would put up $25,000. Anyway, that escrow has never closed. They used this note which my wife had signed and they, we had a little family corporation, as a member of the corporation, a representative of the corporation, they give that to another shyster lawyer over in Simi Valley who files a Municipal Court case against us and runs it in. We got this guy, I want you to remember this name, it is very important. John J. Hunter who is a Municipal Court Judge in Ventura county and he harassed me. Its in the books how they harassed me. I was arrested for having an extension cord in my place of business.

Rick: A what? Can you repeat that? You were arrested for what?

Gary: I was arrested for having an extension cord. A business company had put a neon sign in my place of business and the cord wasn't long enough to go to a plug and I didn't know it. He put a short extension and plugged it in. Well, the Fire Department--they used the Fire Department and the Sheriff's Department and eight armed uniformed personnel and came into my place of business in front of my customers. I was handcuffed and taken to jail for having an extension cord. The reason for this was, convicted in front of a Municipal Court Judge by the name of John Hunter. Well, at that time I was running for supervisor and I'd do something for them to bring up corruption and everything else and it was driving them crazy. So, they came up with this scam and they put me on probation and a few other things which prohibited me from running for office or making any noise again See how they work?

Rick: Yes, I do.

Gary: So, this was John Hunter, the Municipal Court Judge and he's a moron. But that's what they want in there. Anyway, when I came up before s him he advised the Jury to get them to convict me on this charge that having an extension cord was a morals violation. Can you believe that? A morals violation.

Rick: How could it possibly be a morals violation?

Gary: You tell me that, too. They put me on probation, so later on, when this shyster lawyer files a $25,000, and we're talking about $160,000 first Trust Deed that we've got on our property and we were supposed to be paid so much a month and we hoped to retire and live on, along with our social security. Well, they took this $25,000 deal; we moved, hoping to retire.

My wife isn't well. She has had cancer operations, breast operation and a kidney removed and here they are harassing a woman like this. Well, the State law in California, they've got community property law, right, so consequently this was in our corporation--part mine and part my wife's--she had signed this note but listen to this: in the Municipal Court, Judge John Hunter was on this thing [described earlier] of never running for office, since nobody ran against him. In other words, the trick is, if it don't go on the ballot how can you comply with the Constitution State or federal Constitution that says you have to run for office. You have to be elected. How can you be elected if you are never on a ballot. So that cancels that out right there.

Now, John Hunter wanted to be a Superior Court Judge. There was an opening and his term in this phony Municipal Court deal was up so he runs for Superior Court. I've got real strong connections with law enforcement friends and old timers from way back. We got not only law enforcement, but we got the citizens that were sick of the corruption and everything else and he lost the election for Superior Court. So, he retired at close to $100,000. This is a fantastic judgment. You should look into this because nobody thinks about it, this California State Judge's Pension Fund. And they will lie so much, you don't know whether the county is paying them and they keep this confusion going because they don't want you to know where their money comes from or how they control it. It is a terrific fund that they've got up there, billions and billions of dollars that Pete Wilson is controlling. Here is John Hunter, retires as a Municipal Court Judge because he cannot get elected to the Superior Court and that's the prerogative of us citizens that we don't want, isn't that right?

Rick: Yes.

Gary: Well, right after he does this, because I had disqualified all the other judges in Ventura for good cause, then Malcolm Lucas, (and I've got copies of the records), assigned John Hunter to the Municipal Court for the specific reason of handling my wife's case of this Judgment. And here he is, in the past I had tried to disqualify him, but here he is getting close to $100,000 a year from his Municipal Court phony retirement. Now he is getting $140,000 a year from the State to sit as a Municipal Court Judge, to handle my case personally. Well, how they did it was, I couldn't get a lawyer and I knew if I did get a lawyer that he wouldn't show up and I would just be spending money uselessly. Being it was community property, it was my escrow on my business and my wife's. They said that they filed the case only against my wife and that I could not appear and represent either myself or my wife, so they just went on up the line and had their hearings and procedures until they got a judgment for $25,000 against my wife. Now, because of the shyster's expenses and costs they billed it up to $35,000. But here is the trick that they used. They did put this Judgment back to Judge Hunter and because he wouldn't let my wife and me appear, they gave this shyster a Judgment and an assignment of my wife's $150,000 first mortgage. These people had stopped paying on the property we had sold. And they are all tied together.

So here we are hoping to retire. My wife can't afford clothes because they had given her First Trust Deed Mortgage that they settled on her to the company that was going to foreclose for us and if they did they were going to sue them. So they stopped us completely from foreclosing on our property which the people weren't paying for, and also had a Judgment against us which is building up all the time, then another shyster who files--alright, what they did was, the people that bought our property without our knowledge went and got a second Trust Deed for $80,000 and the same lawyers for them, then filed bankruptcy. And they horsed us around on bankruptcy for six or eight months until we could show the bankruptcy judge that it was all a fraud and then he dismissed their bankruptcy.

When they dismissed their bankruptcy the shysters with the second Trust Deed, I had a lawyer who was supposed to be handling it for me, fell in with them too. They all fall in together. He horsed us around so that we didn't know it but the people with the second then filed foreclosure on our property and got the title put into their name. So once they had the title put in their name then they filed a document with the Court that we will not give them our mortgage for the amount that they wanted. Then they filed an action in Superior Court to quiet the title on the property. They still will not let me come and represent myself, even though it's community property. This has been going on for 1-1/2 years now and us with no money or anything else. We didn't flee here. We came here to retire and try to live a life but here we are back involved in this.

Now they've got a Superior Court case against us to quiet the title and my wife's mortgage which she cannot do anything about because they've got Court Orders. Now it's in Superior Court. I walked into Superior Court the first time and guess who is sitting there? John Hunter. And he has another, I've got the documents here where Malcolm Lucas, soon as it went to Superior Court, Malcolm Lucas assigned John Hunter to Superior Court on a special assignment with the wording right in there that this is for the specific purpose of handling this case until it's over. Which they mean: when my wife and I don't have any money left or any property, then it is over.

Here Malcolm Lucas appointed John Hunter, his Judge's pension at $140,000 to sit in the Superior Court now. This is totally against the ethics, morals and everything else in this respect that--suppose we vote the President out, just an analogy, and since we voted him to save money the Congress comes in and just overrides the people's election and puts the same President back in office that the people have been trying desperately to get out of there. Is this the Constitutional American way of putting people in office?

Rick: Now, let's talk just for a moment about Pete Wilson, and then, do you know anything about Daniel Lungren, he is the current Attorney General for California?

Gary: Lungren, well this goes into another big thing. The guy who was the District Attorney, Arlow Smith, the District Attorney of San Francisco County. He ran for that office I guess when Deukmejian got--regardless of who it was-- Vandekamp, maybe is who it was, but Arlow Smith was a Democrat from San Francisco County, and basically, he won the election. He was running against Lungren, the one you were talking about, and Lungren was a Republican with Malcolm Lucas and Pete Wilson and William P. Clark, millions and millions of dollars behind him. As I say, Arlow Smith had it won, kind of like a Dewey and Harry Truman thing. And then, they come in with an absentee ballot and the next thing you know Lungren wins by a small majority. And so, Lungren goes into office. Then another thing occurs, Arlow Smith; the District Attorney and the San Francisco Police Department, a couple of Police Officers get involved in this ADL thing and they raided the ADL (Anti-Defamation League of B'nai Brith).

Rick: You realize that has all been pretty well swept away.

Gary: Yeah, sure it has. Arlow Smith, now whether the Jews with all their money promised him some kind of political office, maybe the next Attorney General or maybe on the State Supreme Court, who knows what he did to knuckle under to them. The detectives are friends of mine. I've talked to them and everything else. They raided the Los Angeles office and the San Francisco office and they've got all the records and I've been trying to get them. They've got all the records that the ADL has against me, my book, and my history of wrestling Jewish lawyers and Judges down in Los Angeles, Harry Pregerson, and a bunch of others and narcotics and because I've been exposed to their connections. I had one of the biggest files in their Los Angeles office. Arlow Smith let this slip out to a friend of mine in Santa Maria when it first happened. These officers got almost two tons of records of the ADL that shows them how they control the Judicial positions. You check and see how many Judges are Jewish Judges and appointed in that office. Take a look at the San Francisco office or the Federal Department. My God, it looks like a registry of the Israeli Bar Association and you can't defy them. They are just so powerful and deeply entrenched and sometimes you begin to wonder if there is any hope at all that we are going to be run by Americans instead of a foreign country.

The question was Lungren and Pete Wilson. Lungren won by just a small majority and we had put a lot of hopes on Arlow Smith, but it looks like Arlow is no different. Whether the entire raid was just for him to frisk those people and get his own power to negotiate or what, but I know that there are a lot of people in the Arab world--I don't have any connections with their organizations, but I know that they have tried their best to live up to the laws of the land and they get totally defeated in every step, and then a frustration sets-in on you, like Ray Renick, terrible frustration. He had no recourse and this is a sad thing, Rick, that all Americans go on and trust in our Court systems and our recourse, recourse for Justice, let's call it that, but there is no such thing. It just is so terribly distorted and taken over...

Rick: Before I forget this, I'm going to sidetrack you one more time then we'll come back to Wilson and Lungren. You mentioned that the man that was taken out in Malibu was linked with the CIA and that it really had nothing to do with his land. What did that have to do with?

Gary: Don Scott was a very wealthy person and he traveled all over the world. He had connections with powerful people that ordinarily you can't make connection with and they've done this to a lot of people in the name of being an American citizen. Will you help us with this or that. Naturally, almost anybody will do that. Well, Don Scott got involved in that way with helping and he began to learn so much about this organization, because he was closely associated down there in Point Mugu. Now, see, the reason they burned the Broome ranch was because the highest peak right above Point Mugu was very high, in my estimation over 1000 ft. Well, they've got all their equipment, their electronic equipment systems, guidance systems and secret stuff up on that mountaintop.

Don Scott was involved in all of this way back in the old days of getting Point Mugu organized for the Government experiments and all that. I'll go just a little further, when they sent Abe Phillips, who was mixed up with Judge Jerome Berenson and Ben Nordham and William P. Clark, he came up to Ventura County under the guise of being in the bail-bonds business. Well, he immediately joined all the organizations that he could, but he joined a specific organization called the Footfitters. I don't know if you every heard of the Footfitters.

Rick: No.

Gary: The Footfitters was an organization basically of law enforcement officers, to foster good relations and connections with people, to foster good relations in law enforcement to help everybody. Well, in this Footfitters chapter in Ventura County, a whole bunch of business men, powerful business men and another group of people, a bunch of the engineers, military officers and so forth from Point Mugu. Well, Abe Phillips got in real good with all of them and naturally being a fraternal organization they'd have a few drinks and talk to Abe. The guy was an ADL agent and all of these records went to Jerome Berenson, Ben Nordham who was the Federal Commissioner and then on down to Los Angeles to Harry Pregerson. And I'd read something about a lawyer down there and one guy that was powerful, I can't recall his name, who were involved in the ADL and private secret checking accounts where they paid everybody. And this was the purpose of Abe Philips and the mailbox outfit.

The other purpose was arranging for the burglarizing of the National Guard Armory and getting all those weapons. A lot of people thought they went to Cuba and to Israel but they didn't. They stayed right here and went to Mickey Cohen's private armory. Mickey was double-crossed by Harry Pregerson. He wasn't supposed to go to jail for IRS violations, which he did. And the arms and everything else, Mickey had a large secret armory of his own.

Well, through the L.A.P.D. we had one officer that was undercover. He got in. He'd been in the military as a gunners mate, which I was also, and he got in there and convinced Mickey that he should take care of his guns and line them all up, so that if they shot somebody with a pistol then that gun went five miles out in the ocean and over the side, right, never to be seen again. What we were doing was under the guise of checking Mickey's armory and keeping it in good shape. He would fire each and every one of those weapons and keep a bullet out of them. When somebody got themselves killed, we'd start matching up all the bullets even though the gun was gone and we would know that they were killed with a gun that came from Mickey Cohen's armory.

Then some things happened, you can only stay in that capacity so long and you get exposed and you've got to run for your life. But then Mickey Cohen got in his trouble. He was for his purpose getting himself on the front page too much and they liked to keep it as quiet as they can and by that time Harry Pregerson had risen in the Judicial ranks and he took over. He double-crossed Mickey Cohen and Mickey Cohen went to the penitentiary for IRS violations. Then Mickey got so mad because he was double-crossed he started screaming he was going to write a book and expose every God damn one of them! Well, of course, this brings consternation, too, you know and the next thing you know Mickey Cohen is in prison. He is hit in the head with a pipe by another prisoner, caves his head all in. They operate on Mickey's brain and they take the part out where he can't remember no more, took half of his brain out and then they gave him some money for being hit in the head and put him back out on the street. But, the guy couldn't remember nothing. He tried to write a book. He got some guy to help him and came out with nothing. He couldn't remember any of the facts or anything else and then not too long after that Mickey Cohen died. So, he's out of the picture then because he knew the whole story.

Rick: Well, lets talk about William P. Clark and the here and now. Is there any new information about William P. Clark and what he is involved with?

Gary: Sure, one of the biggest things now that they are pushing, like I say, going back to this John Hunter, here the guy is and Malcolm Lucas has got something going against him now, some kind of ethical and morals violations deals with the Insurance Companies that he's been playing games with, but that's one thing. And what he is doing with William P. Clark is another in this Pacific Telesis Group if you can look in your files or anything in some newspaper company that's been writing on it under Pacific Telesis. They're trying to manipulate the State commissions and it goes into the [Federal] Communications Commission and everything else but they're trying to put this giant cable through California, and Pete Wilson is totally behind it. He has got to get in again, they're desperate to get him in, him along with Lungren and Malcolm Lucas but we've got a little push against Malcolm Lucas to expand into the true aspect of what's going on.

Rick: Now does Clark own this company?

Gary: As near as we can determine at Pacific Telesis Group, he has got the major control of it. He has a big office in San Francisco. Its not too far from where that incident happened where that guy took out a machine gun killed a bunch of lawyers there. Then he has got another office in San Luis Obispo. He's got connections, he is the one that is doing most of the stuff to Ray Renick.

Rick: You are a bit familiar with the Ray Renick situation. Is there any light you can shed on that?

Gary: Oh, sure, just basically, they were taking everything the man had away from him. And as a citizen, when you start experiencing that it's a frightening experience. You go to Court and you lose every time. You cannot win whether you are right or wrong or indifferent, a terrible frustration sets-in on you and there was just a desperation and they drove the poor man into doing things that, he thought his way of thinking then was his only way out of a desperate situation. Now, a real strange thing happened. Now get this. When they voice this killing of Don Scott down there, one of the things that they said was that Don Scott had this .38, I guess up in the air, and that they ordered him to drop the gun. Now, nobody likes to drop a gun because it crosses your mind if you drop it, it will fire. So, he brought it down and when it got down to a certain point they lowered the boom on him and killed him. One of the things that they said was that he tried to kill them because they found a shell in his gun. Now, nobody knows this theory except myself, and I'm expounding it to you right at the moment. And it's no secret if you want to put it out, but they in their ballistics, the sheriff and they covered it up and I got the name of Michael Bradbury who is the D.A. in Ventura who is deeply, deeply, deeply involved in all of this stuff with Malcolm Lucas and John Hunter because they've all got secrets that they have done and I don't want to go into all of that because this is a long story. Now, they claim that they got a bullet out of Don Scott's gun that showed that he'd tried to fire and it had dented the primer except that it was offset or something and didn't fire, correct?

Rick: Yes.

Gary: This is the excuse for them trying to say that he had actually tried to kill them but had been unsuccessful and they were justified in killing him. Alright, now I understand that they have put the same charge on Ray Renick that he threatened and tried to draw a gun and kill them and I guess they wrestled with him but one of the pieces of evidence they got is another shell and they put the same story on it, that he tried to fire but it had misfired. You see what I mean?

Rick: Yes, I do.

Gary: As a point of defense, how can they explain that we killed a guy because he was trying to kill us and that he fired this gun and we have evidence that it was fired. We are so fortunate that we didn't get killed, that the gun misfired. Its strange that this is the defense in both of those cases, correct?

Rick: Yes, it is.

Gary: Because Ray has brought terrible heat down on himself because he is screaming to high heaven, I guess, about William P. Clark.

Rick: Yes, and I don't imagine that's too popular.

Gary: No, it isn't, with William P. or his cohorts.

Rick: Who are his cohorts?

Gary: Malcolm Lucas, Pete Wilson and Lungren. Back in 1987 with my book and petition for each and every one of the 100 Senators to investigate judicial corruption and protect the citizens as they are supposed, we had inside informants. I won't say who they are because they wouldn't have their job very long but, as I say, a lot of people contact me because they don't believe in what is going on and are desperately trying to help the people even though they keep their job. Cause, if they lose their job, just like everybody, you ain't got nothing left. What are you going to do? Get a job at McDonalds? So, anyway, we created deep consternation with the Master at Arms and with Michael Davidson the head lawyer at the Senate. Now, a whole bunch of those Senators were old time buddies, Joseph Biden, Strom Thurmond, even though one is a Democrat and the other is a Republican, they are like one and the same. We've got a one party system. They all band together against the citizens when something terrible starts to come up so, even Teddy Kennedy, and I think that they have told him that what happened to your two brothers will happen to you and your family. And if this is so, the guy should have gotten out of office, because he couldn't operate as a free man.

What we were talking about was the 100 Senators when they read the contents of the book and how William P. Clark and everybody else was involved--Strom Thurmond--naturally, they had secret conferences as to what steps they were going to take to cover all of this up and.. now, one of the people that was there was Packwood...
Rick: Bob Packwood?

Gary: And this information is news from secret sources. I got this information that these events and when they all met to cover up this thing is in Packwood's diary.

Rick: Interesting, interesting.

Gary: People contacted me and I told them I would be willing, if I received a subpoena, to actively testify as to what I knew and to what I could honestly say, at Ray Renick's trial. Bob Packwood and his diary--these things they tried to cover up regarding William P. Clark, and the 50 caliber machine gun and the burglary of the National Guard Armory and all those things because I've got witnesses, several lawyers and I hope it takes place pretty soon and then I can testify as to seeing the actual gun setup in William P. Clark's home. And I was a gunners mate in the Navy and I know what a 50 caliber machine gun can do. It's a pretty good weapon, I'll tell you.

To get back to the fact that the FBI never recovered them and some of these weapons ended up in Mickey Cohen's armory. Well, after Mickey Cohen went to jail and those things happened, another guy had come up the line who was being pushed by the Jews, whose name was Irving Rueben. A psychopathic murderer, this guy, and he got all these arms and he travels all over the country stirring up trouble and everything else. As I said before, Koresh got involved and I'd have to look up the exact records as to the minute point where he got connected with all those people into guns. Now, some of the guns, they figured it would be a good place, these ones that were taken from the National Guard Armory, specifically the one in Oxnard, where better to hide them than in a religious institute. Well, Koresh got his hands on some of them; some of the 50 caliber machine guns ended up in his hands, and that was the reason, one of the guys that is behind all of this thing. this goes way deep, is Lloyd Bentsen. See, Lloyd Bentsen was the--and this was the purpose for them going into Waco and getting these weapons and destroying any evidence because it would lead right back to Menachem Begin, and if it lead back to Menachen Begin and Mickey Cohen, then it would led back to the Israeli government. All these guns had been transferred when Mickey Cohen went to jail, then Irving Rueben got his hands on them. And then some of them, as I say, went to Koresh in Waco. And that was the purpose of them doing what they did to Waco, to wipe out any evidence of this trail back to the National Guard Armories and to other people. See what I mean? Caspar Weinberger--this was a desperation play.

Rick: What was Caspar Weinberger's involvement in that?

Gary: Caspar Weinberger was at this original meeting when Mickey Cohen, Menachem Begin when they went to Melvin Belli's house and...then Caspar Weinberger becomes Secretary of Defense in a powerful position where he can move government weapons and ammunition and most of it came from a place called Concord Naval Ammunition Dump right in Sacramento. When I was a Navy gunners mate, I was there in 1943. I was a second class gunners mate and we were loading ammunition there and through certain events, I can tell you why that place blew up, you know. There were hundreds and hundreds of military personnel there and it blew up the next year after I left there, in 1944. Now, all of that Concord Naval Ammunition Station and another one in connection with it up in Hawthorne, Nevada, a good deal of the weapons that we are talking about going to South America and other places that they wanted them to go was under the direction of Caspar Weinberger and was loaded onto ship in Port Chicago on the Sacramento river. Do you know any of these things I'm talking about?

Rick: No, I don't.

Gary: And some other things were happening. The American Bar was having a big convention in San Francisco and a friend of mine and I, and what they were doing was putting on, they were trying to put out the information that Lee Harvey Oswald was the only single man involved in the murder of JFK, because things were heating up to the point where it was a conspiracy. They were putting on this mock trial as to whether it was a single bullet. We were passing out flyers, yellow and black flyers and other information at this ABA when we were threatened to be put in jail if we didn't cease and desist.

Now, that leads to a guy by the name of Brossnahan who owns one of the biggest law firms in San Francisco. He was appointed by Larry Walsh, the head of the special investigation authorized by Congress to look into the Iran-Contra deal that they were going to prosecute Weinberger. Well, Larry Walsh appointed Brossnahan as the chief prosecutor of Caspar Weinberger and he flew back to Washington and was preparing the case back there when it strikes all those people that were so involved in the dog-gone thing and it would lead back to--this is the reason for Waco and all that, for Bush pardoning Caspar Weinberger so that it wouldn't go any further. Now Brossnahan is a good friend of a guy, (I can't remember his name right now; I'll think of it in a second), who is another powerful lawyer there at that time. And this other lawyer, he was a good friend of Bobby Kennedy. In fact Bobby Kennedy was staying at this other lawyer's house--when the story goes--which is a lie, but that he was supposed to be down carrying on with Marilyn Monroe and maybe having her killed.

They've got another book out here. I can't remember the name. The TV and everything else calls it a magnificent specimen of telling the story about Bob Kennedy and the Kennedys with Marilyn Monroe. Alright, they have in there a story about Bob Kennedy seen driving up in front of Marilyn Monroe's house in a cadillac convertible in the daytime, getting out and going in.

Well, this is the dumbest lie because at that time my partner and I and another informant that we had, were staked out on Marilyn Monroe's house and the guy that drove up in the cadillac that belonged to George Miscatelli was this guy that I was telling you about that was playing around with Marilyn Monroe and trying to get her in a motel and make secret records about what she knew about what JFK was going to do. At this time Menachem Begin and Israel wanted to know in the most dire way what JFK's reaction and relation was going to be to Israel. They were terribly concerned and they were very upset about the fact that he was going to give a lot of money all over the world to this Peace Corps thing and it would be more difficult for them. They wanted to get any information they could from Marilyn Monroe.

We were passing out these brochures and everything else. We had a printing company and everything and we had it all set up to print the book. I've got a letter here from a man, and he has an office, and I'm pretty sure he was a Secret Service agent. Now, you understand, Lloyd Bentsen, Secretary of Treasury, he is the head of the Secret Service. He is the head of ATF. You know that?

Rick: Yes.

Gary: We passed out these brochures and I sent over 3000 to lawyers in Washington D.C., San Francisco, and Sacramento and I never got a single answer to any one of them except one guy and this guy sent me a letter and said to send it to a certain address. Don't put your address on it or anything else because the CIA will stop it. I got with him and I find out he is connected with Brossnahan and I'm sure with the Secret Service and they have an undercover office down by Concord Navy Ammunition Dump. At that time they were working on, either for or against, Caspar Weinberger and there was a whole bunch of records on the ship that was shipping out ammunition and arms from the Navy Ammunition Station there. Both sides of the case wanted these records and Caspar Weinberger wanted them dumped off the pier. It would show what ships were loaded, what guns and weapons, which would show him a liar, [about] him and Bush not knowing anything about Iran-Contra.

Rick: You mentioned Mishpucka. Is that the same thing as Mossad or is there a difference?

Gary: No, no, Mossad is their official intelligence organization like the CIA is our official intelligence service. Correct?

Rick: Yes.

Gary: And that's a government agency. Just look at it like we're talking about the Mafia. We are talking about a bunch of Italian hoodlums, correct?

Rick: Yes.

Gary: And that's not government or anything else. That is what they call "the family". The Mishpucka, if you just look at the hierarchy of them, it's the same as the Mafia. They're far more sophisticated than the so called Mafia ever thought of being. These people are in the government, every aspect of government, every fraternal organization in the United States or in the world, if you want to put it that way.

Rick: Now, are we talking about Jewish Khazars or what are we talking about?

Gary: Jewish what?

Rick: Khazars.

Gary: What's that?

Rick: Well, are we talking about the Israeli element or...

Gary: No, we are talking about Jews all over the country, Russia, Poland, France, you name it.

Rick: Ok.

Gary: China, Japan, Taiwan, they are everywhere, and they infiltrate themselves partially under financial and economical and trade and everything else, into these foreign countries.

Rick: So, what is the essence of Mishpucka?

Gary: The Mishpucka, we are talking about Hollywood producers, top producers, multi-millionaires, billionaires call them, bond dealers and we could go on down the line, the head of the soap company, the head of everything.

Rick: Now when you mention the organization of Menachem Begin were you referring to specifically the Mishpucka?

Gary: Correct, correct, at that time. We are talking about 1958 to 1962 or so, where my partner and I were surveilling his activities in Southern California, Beverly Hills, Los Angeles along with Mickey Cohen, one of the biggest gangsters in California.

Rick: Now, who was Mickey Cohen linked to?

Gary: Everybody. Harry Pregerson specifically. In fact they were raised over in a place in east L.A. called City Terrace where all the Russian Jews immigrated in the early 20's and they set up their own... You see, the Mishpucka doesn't mix with other people to a certain extent. They have their own out there, I call them ghettos, like down at Fairfax and Beverly in Los Angeles. They group and they stay in there and they keep their own closed little thing going and it's my own personal observation that they basically have no loyalty to any country wherein they live. Their only loyalty is to the Mishpucka and their own country and their own ideology. We get that all over like we've got the Chinese and we've got all these other ethnic groups coming in from all over the world right now, Haitians, and whatever. They may tend to do the same thing but they don't have this deep-seated, deep-rooted thing in where they've got to take control.

They played up this holocaust thing until it's just out of every proportion in the world to put this guilt complex on the Christian people. They just literally rule our politicians and representatives by screaming this anti-semitic thing at them. And I have never had anybody, especially a Mishpucka, define anti-semitism. It appears to be anything where you look like you are going to get in their hair, then they drop it on you. But, ah, Mishpucka, you won't hardly be able to get a Jewish person to even say that word. They don't want that, if you notice in all our government agencies we've got a lot of publicity on the Chinese Triad, we've got the Japanese Jaccuza, we've got the Mexican Mafia, we've got the Italian Mafia, but never once do you hear anything about the Jewish Mishpucka and when they talk about a Jew who happens to be a well-known gangster and everybody knows it, they will say he is a member of the mob. In other words, like the guy all of a sudden is an Italian and mafioso. They are very clever at this thing of scapegoating and making phony trails involving a crime, having a phony trail leading to some other poor guy that doesn't know the slightest bit about what is going on. But to get back to what you were getting at, what was that again, what was that point?

Rick: Well, you have covered it. I was mainly asking if the Mishpucka is the same thing as the Mossad and you were explaining the difference.

Gary: Well, there are people, I mean, actually the Mossad has a word for the Mishpucka. The Mishpucka, the family, is your top overlaying hierarchy of the entire thing. The Mishpucka over-rules everything.

Rick: Ok, we'll talk about something else for a moment. Did you have any information on Strom Thurmond?

Gary: It's in my book that Strom Thurmond--in fact, I'm real short of books right now. We've been trying to print some more but we are getting stonewalled, they pull the printing companies out from under us and all sorts of unbelievable things have happened.

Rick: Let's see, we were talking about Strom Thurmond and you wanted to talk about Don Scott, and Malcolm Lucas, and Lungren. And then the name I just mentioned here you mentioned, that in Sacramento they were trying to change the Constitution but you got some old records. You got them just before March Fong Eu, California's Secretary of State, disposed of them.

Gary: Let me give you just a wee bit of a rundown on this anatomy which is real important at the present and it's a multi­million dollar deal that Wilson and Deukmejian, William P. Clark and Malcolm Lucas are all involved in. See, they totally control the Judicial System, and well, until people understand...they worry about senators, legislators, crooked politicians, crooked police departments; ok, but that's still the legislative and executive branches. There is no senator that can walk into your office and put handcuffs on you and throw you in jail, Rick. But a judge can. For the slightest little what they call infraction now, where you don't have the right to a jury. They set up all kinds of things to pound us in the ground. Well, until the people concentrate on straightening out our Judicial System, they are spinning their wheels with all the rest of this stuff. Of course, the knowledge is good to get it out but to fight it, we have got to break up this Lawyer-Judicial System thing. One second now, what we have got is the Pacific Telesis Group. Now that is the thing which William P. Clark controls. I think you know that William P. Clark is a former State Superior Court Judge, Appeals Court Judge, State Supreme Court Judge, National Security Advisor for Reagan and Secretary of the Interior, just to name a few of his contacts and positions and at one time he was tied up with intelligence with the CIA. He was over in Europe and that is where he was working for the military intelligence, basically for the CIA.

Rick: Have you got any more on that?

Gary: Well, he was involved in all of that over in Europe. Hungary and Czechoslovakia.

Rick: You don't happen to have a rough estimation of years, do you?

Gary: I'd say, roughly, because he came back and got involved with the Nordham and Berenson Law Firm and the Bank of A. Levy in Oxnard and Robert Lagomarcino, who was the State Senator at that time. In fact all of these guys, a good bunch of them, Robert Lagomarcino, you've heard of that name, William P. Clark, and John Paft (I'm going to get into that) were all born and raised in a little town called Ojai, California. Their connections go way back, we are talking about multi-million dollar connections with every industry. Laggomasinos were involved in the liquor industry and ranching and banking, real estate, everything you can dream up. Alright, to get the anatomy of this Pacific Telesis thing we can start with the John Paft Electric Company in Ventura County.

Rick: Can you repeat that name?

Gary: John Paft. P A F T. Electric Company. They formed, and this is back when the Courts broke up the AT & T, which is about 10 years ago. Are you with me there?

Rick: Oh, sure.

Gary: Alright, they broke them up into several small outfits, one of them being named Pacific Telesis Group with William P. Clark because he was tied up with Pac Tel.

Rick: How was he tied up with Pac Tel?

Gary: Pac Tel was, wait a moment I'll get you that. Now Paft Electric Company was under William P. Clark's guidance, they formed what they called Paft Telecommunications Inc. You got that.

Rick: Yes.

Gary: Of Ventura. Now, that's tied up with Pac Tel. Pac Tel Mobile Access, which acts as that company's agent for Mobilinx Cellular Telephone Service in Ventura. Now, I will tell you how big this is. This is an extension of the powerful multi-million dollar system that operates in Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside, and San Bernadino Counties. Pac Tel Mobile Access is a wholly owned subsidiary of Pacific Telesis Group and Pacific Telesis Group is the parent company of Pacific Bell. Now Pete Wilson our Governor, being a lawyer and in the position that they put him in, his assigned task right now is to see to take care of all the Fiber Optic Cable System to do this thing and stop any interference, we are talking about legal interference, with the Pacific Telesis Group conspiracy to take over all the cable communications. I got involved. Now Malcolm Lucas, you know, used to be a Federal Judge, did you know that?

Rick: Yes.

Gary: Malcolm Lucas was a Federal Judge and just before Deukmejian left office, he appointed Malcolm Lucas to his present position, Chair Person of the California State Supreme Court, a very powerful position.

Rick: When was this?

Gary: Just before Deukmejian left office and Pete Wilson came in. But Pete Wilson and George Deukmejian are just like one and the same person in all their actions and conspiracy and what they are doing.

Rick: Ok.

Gary: Hold on just a minute... I've got a bunch of notes here. I got into investigating Judicial corruption and this goes back to Don Scott. All of this is tied together. It's really strange.

Rick: It is all tied together. It clearly is.


Gary: Take the giant wagon wheel and the rim of this giant wagon wheel, we're running around like ants on the rim of this giant wheel. Then all of a sudden you stop at a spoke. And where does that spoke go? It goes to the hub. This is what we are getting at, the hub of a lot of this power right here is what we are talking about, and George Deukmejian is still powerful. You wouldn't believe it with this giant law office he is tied in with.

Rick: I would like to nail down Strom Thurmond a little bit, Lungren, and Don Scott.' They're all totally unrelated in a way but...

Gary: Ok. Don Scott was a very wealthy person. His fortune was derived from his family. He didn't make it himself. They had stuff that goes way back, they used to [produce a] drink for cough syrup that made them very wealthy and he had all this money and he was a world traveler. He was very well suited to be approached by the CIA. He could walk into Italy, France, Germany, talk to the leaders of those countries and everything and he was an excellent listening post for the CIA and that developed. His ranch property was right in there close with the Broome ranch which overlooked the Point Mugu Naval Missile Air Station--developing all of our missiles, in fact, almost every missile that we've got was developed on the Point Mugu range out in the ocean which was overlooked by the Broome ranch.

Rick: You mentioned that Don Scott was involved with an organization. What organization were you referring to?

Gary: We're talking about the CIA but at that time the CIA was being infiltrated by the Mishpucka, by this guy, by a family called the Abe Phillips and Hy Philips.

Rick: What was that name again?

Gary: His brother Hy, H Y. I don't know what they call him. Rick: Ok.

Gary: Anyway, it was Hy Phillips, and they joined all the fraternal organizations, business organizations and everything in that county and were getting in with the Point Mugu engineers, the Police Department and everything. Well, they were Mishpucka spies. They were working for Mickey Cohen and Menachem Begin and what they were, they had a bailbondsman business. They were born and raised over in City Terrace over in east L.A. with Mickey Cohen and Harry Pregerson, who is now one of the most powerful Federal Judges behind the scenes, in the United States. This guy pulls strings you wouldn't believe.

Rick: Where is Abe Phillips now?

Gary: Abe is dead. Hyman, that's his name, Hyman Philips is still in Ventura as far as I know. The purpose is, I mean, the same thing. This guy Pollard is in Federal Prison right now for spying on us [police] [for the ADL]. They claim that they are good American citizens and they are our friends but why do they spy on us and steal all of our secrets? A lot of these secrets right now have become a problem that this guy Clinton is trying to straighten out with Korea and China. They have been the recipients of all those things because the Mishpucka has sold them to them.

Rick: You mentioned the ADL and private, secret checking accounts. Can you expand on that?

Gary: Oh, yeah...that's all current stuff right now...you see at one time the San Francisco Chronicle was coming out with a lot of this stuff, two reporters, and then all of a sudden...have you got any of the copies of all of the reports that they made on this ADL and how they were spying?

Rick: Yeah, I've gotten quite a few articles on it.

Gary: Ok. Now, all of a sudden this guy Arlow Smith, the District Attorney of San Francisco, who had been instrumental in raiding the ADL and getting all these documents, all of a sudden pulled in his horns and just plain sold out, probably for a few bucks from the ADL.

Rick: What do you think your odds are of getting your own records that the ADL has.

Gary: They have blocked me, they've blocked it every step of the way and the records were being held. Arlow Smith, and some of them, I understand, by the city authorities of San Francisco.

Rick: It's pretty interesting that you have such a thick file.

Gary: Oh, heck, I've got a file from clear back from 1946 and '47 when I was investigating Harry Pregerson. Harry Pregerson was a little Jewish ambulance chasing law student, running around holding Mickey Cohen's hands, doing dirty tricks with his old buddy Abe Phillips and Mickey Cohen. And this starts clear back in 1947 when I was instrumental in getting Abraham Davidian. I told you the story about the Davidians.

Rick: Yes, you did.

Gary: And how they are tied up with Waco.

Rick: Now, do you think there was some actual paperwork and documentation at Waco, as well, that somehow links Menachem Begin?

Gary: I wouldn't be surprised that there was physical evidence of all kinds. Sure. Once they got the machine guns that came through my knowledge and my evidence, once they got hold of a machine gun that came from the Oxnard Armory and it matched up with the machine gun that William P. Clark had mounted in his house, then we would know that it came from the Oxnard Armory. Well, we know who is involved in that, Mickey Cohen. Abe Phillips, Menachem Begin, Judge Jerome Berenson, Judge Ben Nordham, who owns the Bank of A. Levy and had been in that area in the banking business since the late 1800's.

Rick: Ok. Why do you think, exactly, Don Scott was killed? Because he crossed the CIA?

Gary: No, what he was doing was that he was getting wise to the fact that the Mishpucka was manipulating him.

Rick: I see.

Gary: And manipulating the CIA also.

Rick: I see.

Gary: And he just knew too much about the like, A. B and Hy Philips, and the Bank of A. Levy, and he knew Harry Pregerson. He was getting clued in on all that stuff and finding out that a lot of these things that were occurring weren't really occurring to the CIA, but through the Mishpucka.

Rick: I see.

Gary: I want you to understand that by no means do I mean that all of our Intelligence Agencies, Police Departments, Sheriff Departments, are corrupt. That's not so. They have been corrupted up in the upper levels by these business people who are using them and the way things are coming out now, a lot of these officers are beginning to find out that a lot of these missions they are sent on are not for the benefit of the United States but for the benefit of the Mishpucka in a foreign country. And as soon as these honest agents explode this thing, we are going to have the means of breaking this thing, ultimately, when our honest loyal American agents find out how they have been used and twisted and can't figure out how come they are always getting blamed for crazy events that happen, and the overall strategy that, from somewhere, in a mysterious place, is coming. Nobody seems to know where from. You even get with some of the higher level intelligence agents and they don't know where these directions are coming from.

Rick: Lets talk for a minute about Barbara Boxer and the former San Francisco mayor, Diane Feinstein.

Gary: Well, sure, they're Mishpuckas. You see, the thing is you can't be Jewish without being a Mishpucka. You can be Italian and you don't have to be Catholic or believe in all the tenets, but in the Jewish religion you either belong to it, do what you are told or you are no longer under the protection and auspices of the Rabbi and the Jewish religion. It's a terrible thing that they put on Jewish people, but it's there. No matter how you look at it. Getting back to Diane Feinstein, there is documentation where she infiltrated, while she was the mayor, the San Francisco Police Department and ordered them to join hands with the ADL in spying on people. It is a matter of record. The woman can't deny it. And Bobby Boxer, in all due respect to humanity and people, Bobby Boxer doesn't have enough intelligence, experience or brains to be on any kind of a board, small board of a community or anything like that. She is just an agent for the ADL.

Rick: Now, in your experience with California law enforcement you know the legal system and how it works. I am working with people through the CONTACT that are very definitely being persecuted, much like you have been. If you were to find recourse, how would you find recourse? Who would you go to? As a reporter, I have made petitions to not only various public media (granted they are controlled media) but to government officials; and the government officials, of course, that I've gone to are all part of this corrupt system. Who would you, if you were in a bind which you have been, who would you turn to to really get some action and get some results?

Gary: There is nobody. This is one of the reasons why, when Michael Thomas and I went back with my book and a petition to the 100 United States Senators we got nowhere. We thought here is the most powerful, and the Senate Judiciary Committee which is run by a real sick person by the name of Joseph Biden, and Teddy Kennedy is on it, but Teddy Kennedy has been so frightened by the Mishpucka over what happened to his brothers and has been threatened so many times. Of course, he is not too much of a man for character, real character or anything else with the lifestyle he has led, but they have sufficiently pranked him on his own personal safety and his family's safety and that's been proven. Look what happened to JFK and Bobby and-- that's evidence, and then some of the family, younger members involved in narcotics. Who are we going to go to? Well, we went back there at my expense on this one particular time and spent five days going to each and every one of the Senators, putting the petition, you wouldn't believe the arrogant and looked-down-upon attitude that they give you. A citizen in this country is nothing to these bluebloods up there.

Rick: Ok, we have a situation here where there is a local prosecutor and D.A. taking actions against some citizens here, so I've made an appeal from an information standpoint and an investigation standpoint to, of all people, Lungren, and the Governor. Now, within that structure somewhere.

Gary: Even if there was one man honest enough and brave enough, he just wouldn't be able to get through the process. I believe this is what happened to Arlow Smith. He just that, the Mishpucka just brings--just the ADL in San Francisco area is run by a fifty million dollar Jewish budget, did you know that?

Rick; No.

Gary: That's more than the money can fight right there alone. And if he goes to Federal Court, who is he going to fight with? A guy by the name of Alex Kazinski. Alex Kazinski they took him right off the street. He was in Federal Republican politics with Reagan and cronies. So they appointed a Mishpucka, they appointed Alex Kazinski who was born, in Russia and nobody knows where he came from but all of a sudden he is a United States Federal Appeal Court Justice.

Rick: This is in San Francisco?

Gary: Yeah. There is no way you are going to get by him and I can go on and on and name all the rest of the Mishpucka Federal Judges that they have got there.

Rick: So what do you think the answer is?

Gary: The answer is exactly what you are doing. getting to the people. See this is what...and you know it yourself, that you can't get any of this kind of information true, or not, out to a regular newspaper.

Rick: It doesn't work.

Gary: No, you can't get it out on the media, the television. Now, there are some of them on the radio that are getting a little bit braver on these talk shows and coming out, but the larger amount of people don't listen to those late at night. They are asleep by then so that they can go to work the next day and make enough money to keep body and soul and family together. But you asked me a question and after all my study and everything else, everything that we've done, it's getting the word to the people, and also current events. We are going to have hard times financially. There is no question about it. The average person, you can't get the average person to do a dog-gone thing, even though he knows it should be, unless it starts to touch him. Unless it starts to touch them and their family and their pocketbook.

Rick: That's true.

Gary: When this event happens, then the next thing these people do is start running around like a chicken with his head cut off screaming why didn't somebody do something? And here are people in the background like you and me and thousands of others that have been losing everything they've got in the world to try and bring this thing out. But here are these people running around saying why didn't somebody do something? Well, the answer is it's time for these people to start jumping in and doing something too.

Rick: Ok, that's a perfect place to end. Let's end it right there.

"YE SHALL KNOW THE

TRUTH

AND THE TRUTH

SHALL MAKE YOU MAD! "

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